Subject: Re: CLASS, CHAT: important question
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:23:55 -0400
From: Judy Marion - iluvdogs@HUSKYNET.COM

At 12:15 PM 9/10/98 -0400, Laura Georgi wrote:

You can warn people that their only dog might react this way to a newcomer, but basically they won't really know til they try -- and in fact even if the dog HAS lived with another dog before, it's not necessarily going to accept the next one.

Absolutely right! I have had more return adoptions from just that. So I revised a small portion of my adoption application to include:

what pet do you currently own_______________________________
How old is your dog_____________________
Has your dog ever lived with another dog before________________
If so, how long has your current dog been the only dog of the house
___________

NoVa Rottweiler Rescue League, Inc/MD,DC,VA http://waikaloa.huskynet.com/rottirescue/rescue.htm

Subject: Re: CLASS: re: questions over the phone
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:34:04 -0400
From: Judy Marion - iluvdogs@HUSKYNET.COM

At 07:39 AM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:

I am rather surprised at the idea that homes with unspayed/unneutered dogs are not suitable placement homes. Some of our best supporters are serious breeders. I am far more concerned with what they are DOING with their dogs, so I ask what breeds they have (an unaltered mixed breed WOULD raise a warning flag!), the types of activities they do with their dogs (obedience? water work? agility? therapy assistance? freestyle?). If the dogs they have are unaltered, what health tests have been done on them?

A person that has a legimate excuse for not spaying or neutering for the purpose of showing is another issue entirely. That I would understand. But when 90% of the calls are simply just for pets I have to address the fact that the current dog is still intact and discuss this with them, not lecture, educate on the health risks involved. Many people just don't know.

Judy
NoVa Rottweiler Rescue League, Inc/MD,DC,VA
http://waikaloa.huskynet.com/rottirescue/rescue.htm

Subject: Re: CLASS: Forms/and information
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:05:52 -0500
From: Brenda Bass - basswood@HOME.COM

Judy Marion wrote:

Also, if you adopt a spayed female into a home with an intact male, do you think the intact male will have playing on his mind? The poor newly adopted dog is nervous enough in a strange environment without having to tolerate some male dog that keeps trying to climb on her back.

While my opinion is that this behavior is more dominance-related than sex-related, and will happen with neutered animals, too, I really think this may be an area where the breed of dog is more of a factor than whether or not the animal is intact.

I have boxers, and they are interested in play, play, play - regardless of sexual status. All mine are currently spayed/neutered, but back when I was showing and breeding, the behavior was the same. Newcomers were/are not mounted as a rule. While rotties may do more mounting, other breeds may have other typical patterns.

I think this is one of those cases where we each need to play it by ear, using our specialized knowledge of our own breeds.

Brenda Bass
basswood@home.com
Brentwood, TN USA

Subject: CLASS: Forms/and information
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:19:41 -0400
From: Elizabeth Sommers - ESOMMERS@COURTS.STATE.NY.US

Janine writes:

They and their vet said not to neuter him. He did not even lift his leg! Why refuse a great home for this? It all depends on the home.

I agree absolutely. We have placed dogs with people who do responsible breeding and thus have unneutered animals. In fact, come to think of it, I was still breeding Pepper when I first started fostering. One of our top volunteers has an unspayed Whippet, who has a heart condition that precludes being put under anesthesia. And we've placed dogs with older couples who have older, unaltered (but responsibly handled) dogs: they *now* agree that neutering is the way to go but back when they got their dog it wasn't the practice and now he/she is so old it might be dangerous. (I don't agree -- we've neutered a 13 year old, BUT I'm not going to insist that someone put their 10 or 12 year old dog under the knife.) We definitely ask -- and if there is no good reason for the current dog to be unspayed/unneutered, we may not approve the home because it says something about the people's level of responsiblity/reality. But a blanket, no-exceptions policy would, to my mind, make no sense.

It's the level of responsibility that counts. Same thing with the "Do you have a fenced yard?" question. For some dogs, a fence is an absolute requirement; for some busy families, esp with children, a fence is a requirement regardless of the dog. But for others -- some of the best, most responsible homes I know (both adoptive and foster) do not have fences. Ironically, the only dogs we've had who were killed in traffic (thankfully few) had been placed in homes that *did* have fences... which either developed holes or the gate was left unlatched, or whatever..

So, as Janine says, it really depends on the home. I can't really think of a single question that has an automatic *wrong* answer that would, without more, disqualify someone. But it's still important to ask the questions and discuss the answers.

Betsy Sommers
GRROWLS-NY
Golden Retriever Rescue, Albany, NY

Subject: Class: Tel vs Face-to-Face Interview
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:16:09 -0600
From: Tracy or Joy Gunderman - tracy@GOODNET.COM

Using the telephone, email or fax is easier than face-to-face interviews, but may lead the interviewer into being misinformed. We read a lot into people's facial expressions and body language that we miss with convenient, modern media. Preferably, I like to meet an applicant for a cup of coffee, but this often does not work into our busy schedules, especially in larger towns.

When interviewing by T*E*L*E*P*H*O*N*E, after I ask a few standard questions, I like to establish a friendlier atmosphere by asking a silly question like, "What's the worse situation your pet ever put you in?" Or, perhaps something like, "What's the worst thing you've ever done to your dog(s)/pet(s)?"

The intent of these questions is to do a reality check -- to see if the person you are talking to is answering in a sincere, relaxed manner. Another of my favorite questions is to ask the applicant to describe his/her most beloved, all-time favorite pet -- and then ask what about that pet endeared him the most. The answer to this question can help predict the placement success of a dog you may have in mind.

I ALWAYS ask if a previous pet has been relinquished and why.

By using encouraging prompts like "You bet", "Oh?", or "You don't say..", your questions are-open ended and allow the applicant to expand on his/her answers. This method takes more time, but I find it valuable in exacting expectations for a new pet.

For those of you who like this, tuck it away in your bag of tricks.

Takecare
Joy Gunderman
Norwegian Elkhound Rescue

Subject: Re: CLASS: Forms/and information
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:19:23 -0400
From: Vicki DeGruy - 72074.676@COMPUSERVE.COM

What Judy said:

do you think the intact male will have playing on his mind? The poor newly adopted dog is nervous enough in a strange environment without having to tolerate some male dog that keeps trying to climb on her back.

In my experience, you're often going to have this even if the adopter's pets are altered - mounting a new dog is also a matter of establishing dominance and spayed bitches will do it as often as the males.

Take care,

Vicki

Subject: CLASS: Useful Forms
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:46 -0400
From: "Beth E. Widdows" - bew1234@TIR.COM

Same thing with the "Do you have a fenced yard?" question. For some dogs, a fence is an absolute requirement; for some busy families, esp with children, a fence is a requirement regardless of the dog.

Since this is part of the form, can I ask how you feel about portable pens? For a small breed, this seems to be an option for some with unfenced yards. It gives the dog a place to go out safely without being a permanent and expensive fence.

Beth Widdows
Westy Rescue - Michigan

Subject: CLASS: Useful Forms
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:32:33 -0400
From: "Beth E. Widdows" - bew1234@TIR.COM

No first time adopters

I guess I have a hard time with this. Some of our best matches have been with people who hadn't had a Westie before. But they indicated that they had done a lot of research via books and internet; they asked a lot of good questions about the breed and sought out contact with Westies before applying. If they are in the area, I sometimes invite them to visit with me and my Westie since I know it is hard to meet a Westie once you have decided that it is a good dog based on what you have read. Maybe it is a difference in the size of the dogs involved. It is probably easier to adapt to a Westie than to a very large dog (even though the Westie is a terrier and very strong minded!). I'd worry about the person who has never had a dog, has landed on a Westie as their pick but has never seen one face to face. But for the ones who have worked hard on making this choice, I don't see it as something to stop the adoption.

I have a harder time with the people who obviously want a rescue because they don't want the bother of housetraining. Some think that gettng a rescue means getting the perfect dog, all housebroken etc. I try to warn them that the dogs are usually in rescue for a reason and that they may have problems, esp. during the first month or so of adjustment. I had one family return a dog because it had an accident on the first day. They aren't likely to get another from me. That dog is doing fine now with another couple who understood about adjustment periods.

Beth Widdows
Westie Rescue - Michigan

Subject: CLASS: Questions over the phone
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:36:47 -0500
From: Bob & Lysa Bea - bbeabass@ameritech.net

Hi Folks,

Keeshond Rescue is unfortunately booming, so we don't post as much as we should/could!? We do ask if they have another dog and if it's spayed/neutered. If it is not, we let them know that we do not place our rescue's with intact dogs. We do explain the health risks, breeding problems, etc. We turned people away, plain and simple.

Also our Adoption Application, they MUST list all the dogs & animals they've owned, status and intact or fixed.

Before we place a Keeshond in a home with another dog, we have the family come to meet the new dog "on neutral ground" and of they all get along (you do find out very quickly) then we will allow the placement. Even though their dogs have met at our foster home or facility, we ask that they do another meeting close to their home before they bring the dog inside the house. We explain that if you try to bring another dog into the house without a neutral meeting, it IS a mixture for disaster!

Hey I have to do it for ALL my fosters, we've got a Lab that can be aggressive. With the neutral meetings, our Lab allows ALL rescue's to come and stay a while!

Oh and we'd make an exception to the intact dog rule for an approved show home, either foster or adoption. But we still insist on neutral meetings!

Lysa Bea
Keeshond Rescue, IL

Subject: Re: CLASS: Forms/and information
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:22:55 -0400
From: Judy Marion - iluvdogs@HUSKYNET.COM

At 04:19 PM 9/10/98 -0400, Vicki wrote:
In my experience, you're often going to have this even if the adopter's pets are altered - mounting a new dog is also a matter of establishing dominance and spayed bitches will do it as often

I am not disagreeing with this but I do have a better success rate with adoptions when altered dogs are involved, dominance, sexual, whatever. It seems like the "humping" is not continued indefinitely when dealing with an altered male vs. an intact male that still has that testosterone.

Now could we move on to doing a housecheck everyone?

NoVa Rottweiler Rescue League, Inc/MD,DC,VA
http://waikaloa.huskynet.com/rottirescue/rescue.htm

Subject: Re: CLASS:Doing the housecheck
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:28:49 -0400
From: Judy Marion - iluvdogs@HUSKYNET.COM

Last time we just got started on this when my class was about to end so we can continue now. This topic will also vary with breeds, large and small. I used to be VERY firm on the fence issue but I have on occassion waived that if I get an applicant that has had a dog that died of old age and was faithfully walked all it's life. Thats just one example. I just wanted to get the subject rolling. I will also contribute the other things I look for as we all have ideas to share. So lets see how many ways people would do a housecheck for so many breeds that we have here and what qualifications everyone has. I do have a form that I give my foster people and volunteers so that they can do housechecks for me.

Judy
NoVa Rottweiler Rescue League, Inc/MD,DC,VA
http://waikaloa.huskynet.com/rottirescue/rescue.htm

Subject: Re: CLASS: Useful Forms
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:41:08 -0400
From: Judy Marion - iluvdogs@HUSKYNET.COM

At 04:32 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
No first time adopters

I guess I have a hard time with this. Some of our best matches have been with people who hadn't had a Westie before. But they indicated that they had done a lot of research via books and internet; they asked a lot of good questions about the breed and sought out contact with Westies before applying. If they are in the area, I sometimes invite them to visit with me and my Westie since I know it is hard to meet a Westie once you have decided that it is a good dog based on what you have read. Maybe it is a difference in the size of the dogs involved.

What I look for in a first time adopter for a Rottweiler is someone that is willing to listen to me. I guess that cam eout wrong. Let me rephrase. I do first time adoptions for Rottweilers and it has very often been more successful because they want advice and are very willing to do whatever is best and whatever is suggested. Those people I love! The ones that know it all because they have had one, I can't handle. But there is the inbetween, meaning the person that knows the breed and has some experience with them so I don't have to spend alot of time helping the entire transition. So I guess this too will depend on breeds. Rotties are sometimes very stubborn, but they are intelligent and easy to train IF you match the right dog with the right person. I have one home waiting that is a novice to the breed. I am waiting for the right dog for her. Anyone else?

NoVa Rottweiler Rescue League, Inc/MD,DC,VA
http://waikaloa.huskynet.com/rottirescue/rescue.htm