Subject: Re: CLASS: legalities and strays
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:41:26 -0400
From: Laura Georgi - georgil@CLEMSON.EDU

Have the dog scanned by the pound or a veterinarian for possible microchip.

I think this is a good idea. I did it with Penny, the beagle I picked up (no surprises, no chip). As Susan said, shelters around here don't routinely scan. By asking them to do Penny, I got them to get the blasted scanner out of the box and the batteries in it, and also showed them that at least one person in the area thinks strays should be scanned for chips. Would have made a bigger impression if they'd found a chip, and reunited a long lost pet with its tearful owners, but, hey, this is the real world.

Oh, about tattoos on big intimidating breeds: someone on the list awhile back suggested putting a mirror on the floor and walking the dog over it. Which doesn't help much for dirty hairy black dogs, but is a thought.

Laura Georgi
shelties
Clemson SC
georgil@clemson.edu

Subject: Re: CLASS: Message to Class
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:38:13 -0400
From: hhe - hhe@UCS.NET

To all participants:

Am I correct that there is no interest in the topic I suggested, "incorporation". If so I will suggest another topic or, if there are suggestions from the group, feel free to speak up and we can move on past "strays" after the evening participants have a chance to speak.

Thanks for your attention.

Helena

Subject: Re: CLASS: Legalities and Strays
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:39:01 EDT
From: Margaret-La Tour - GShepCen@AOL.COM

Janyne wrote:
What are the legal issues regarding strays? For example, if someone calls that they found a stray lab, we ask them to place a found ad for five days before we do anything. What *should* we be doing?

Every jurisdiction has its own laws when it comes to strays. In King County, around Seattle, the law states that a private citizen can rescue a stray dog if they meet certain criteria. First, they are required to inform the nearest animal control facility that they have the dog. They then must publicly advertise in the Found Section of a newspaper. They are required also to put up notices, posters in the area where the dog was found. The law also states that they must hold the dog for a period of 30 days before a disposition can be made. After that time the owner can license the dog or can place the dog. I would always check with the local jurisdiction about differing laws. They can vary from city to city.

As representatives of Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue, we cannot pick up strays off the street and place them. We must follow the above guidelines in placing dogs. It is easier on everyone, if the dog goes through the system. That way, if they are not redeemed, we can take them out of the shelter after 72 hours and place them. The dog can then get on with life.

Margaret La Tour, GSD Rep/Pres.
Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue

Subject: CLASS: legal
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:57:14 -0700
From: boreas - boreas@NETWRX.NET

Can we discuss the amount of insurance coverage the non-profit's should carry and exactly what type. Also, what one should look for as far as exclusions and various agency that provide coverage.

Victoria Kremer
http://personal.netwrx.net/boreas/southwes.htm
Southwest OES Rescue, Inc.

Subject: Re: CLASS: Legal: Incorporation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:52:35 -0700
From: Karen Mayer - rottlover@SYSPAC.COM

I for one am VERY interested in incorporation. I am working on my articles now, in fact. I would like to know from those who have been through this, from where I can start soliciting donations once I'm incorporated (non-profit, of course)?

Karen Mayer - Mesa, AZ - rottlover@syspac.com
Phoenix Area Rottweiler Rescue
http://www.rottlover.com/rescue

Subject: Re: CLASS: Legal: Incorporation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:30:31 -0400
From: Elizabeth Sommers - ESOMMERS@COURTS.STATE.NY.US

Karen wrote:
I for one am VERY interested in incorporation. I am working on my articles now, in fact. I would like to know from those who have been through this, from where I can start soliciting donations once I'm incorporated (non-profit, of course)?

Just a word of caution. Becoming a not-for-profit corporation does NOT make donations to your organization tax-deductible for the donor. In other words, the fact that you are incorporated will not make it more attractive to people who may want to make significant donations to your group. In order for them to be able to take a deduction for their contributions to you, your organization must be recognized as an IRS 501(c)(3) charity.

To become a 501(c)(3) charity you must be incorporated as a not-for-profit within your state, so it is an essential first step to having people want to give you those big donations, but it is only a *first* step. (To my mind, it is probably the hardest step, as well, so you may as well go ahead and finish the course and get the 501(c)(3) status.)

Betsy Sommers
GRROWLS-NY
Golden Retriever rescue, Albany, New York
(...... who refers everyone to our bureaucrat extraodinaire, David Sawicki - PSawicki@capital.net, for any more detailed response on this topic. You can thank me later, David. )

Subject: Re: CLASS: Insurance
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:36:22 -0400
From: hhe - hhe@UCS.NET

A question has been posed regarding insurance coverage. Any groups with actual experience in choosing and obtaining coverage care to speak? My few comments below might get you started.

I belong to a breed club and work as a committee person for its rescue. The club has insurance which basically covers the club at "events". That is the insurance that is required when we hold a match or fun day, etc. at municipal parks. It is, in fact, the Parks that will always require us to carry insurance before they will give us our permits as it protects them (to some extent.) I do not know if any insurance company offers liability insurance to what it recognizes as rescue organizations, per se(as opposed to municipal or private shelters.) I too would be interested in hearing from you all.

Some clubs also buy insurance to cover their Board of Directors who may potentially have exposure in a lawsuit. This is available for additional cost. You should get details from the insurance carrier as to what they offer and at what cost and then weigh the possible loss and benefit of such insurance. This type of insurance is not required to obtain operating permits from parks as mentioned above.

Keep in mind when it is the club you are insuring that the clubs "exposure", what it stands to lose are its assets (its treasury). Remember I mentioned that incorporation creates an entity that may be sued. The club should consider what it is protecting in buying insurance. If your treasury stands at $300. it hardly makes sense to pay $500 a year for insurance. An insurer will have an obligation to defend in a legal action but will only be liable to pay the amount of the insurance purchased in the event of an unfavorable judgement against the insured. And, no insurance company will commit itself to defend against injury caused by INTENTIONAL acts, criminal acts or gross negligence.

Just to stir the pot a bit, some people think that the entry of insurance into any area inevitably results in lawsuits as the fact of insurance creates a fund from which a prevailing party may recover. In other words, people don't sue when their is not the hope of substantial recovery and, even in areas where contingency fees are permitted by law, attorneys don't often work on contingency when there is not the possibility of a substantial recovery or a fee award by the court from the losing opponent.

Helena

Subject: CLASS: Legal: Incorporation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:21:33 -0700
From: boreas - boreas@NETWRX.NET

Karen,

We planned an on-line auction, and solicited items to be donated to the auction through the OES mailing list. Plus, other nonprofit helped as well by donating gifts. The auction was held from Friday to Sunday and we did make a lot of money. If you need more information you can give me a call 391-0999. I am only about a 20-30 minute drive from you.

Victoria Kremer
http://personal.netwrx.net/boreas/southwes.htm
Southwest OES Rescue, Inc.

Subject: CLASS: Incorporation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:48:21 -0400
From: hhe - hhe@UCS.NET

I don't know of any reason why you cannot accept donations even without incorporation as long as you are personally willing to keep records, claim any taxable receipts and pay taxes on those receipts. (Are we having fun yet.) I am willing to be corrected here if this is in error.

What can't be offered, uless you have FEDERAL tax exempt status which may be obtained as explained by Elizabeth is that "donations are tax deductible".

Helena

Subject: CLASS: Message to class
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:07:35 -0400
From: "JENNIFER E. FREY" - jenfrey@WELCHLINK.WELCH.JHU.EDU

In regards to this post I am very interested in this part of the class. I haven't been saying much but have been reading and taking in everything. The rescue group I work with is in this process and I think any information on the topic would be valuable to have.

Please continue with the topic of inc.

Thanks
Jen Frey
Chesepeake Bay Retreivers Relief & Rescue
MC SPCA
jenfrey@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu

Subject: CLASS:Incorporation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:03:04 -0700
From: boreas - boreas@NETWRX.NET

Is there something special going to happen in the year 2001? It appears from most people I know who are a 501 (c) (3) will have their advance ruling period end on December 31, 2001. I find this strange as some people have been incorporated longer than others and still the same date appears.

Victoria Kremer
http://personal.netwrx.net/boreas/southwes.htm
Southwest OES Rescue, Inc.

Subject: CLASS: legalities and strays
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:31:30 EDT
From: Jim McDaniel - Jwmcd42@AOL.COM

In the OES Rescue world, there seems to be a trend toward incorporating as a 501 (c) (3) organization. New England, Southwest, and Florida have done so [that I am personally aware of], and Virginia is on the verge. Perhaps some points about the pitfalls would be of benefit to those not incorporated as well something on the benefits. Personally, I'm beyond redemption; still . . . .

Jim McD
Houston

Subject: CLASS: Legal & NFP Corporations
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:44:54 -0500
From: LSM - iggys@BELLSOUTH.NET

statement that
"Any person believing themselves aggrieved may institute a lawsuit."
***********

The old English barristers used to say "You can sue the Pope for bastardy if you can afford the cost bill (ie. filing fee)." In other words, many a losing case is filed. But, since they've gotten pretty expensive to defend, avoiding one altogether is certainly preferable these days.

A few thoughts on incorporation: Your Charter is filed with your State and outlines what are "legal" activities for your group, and possibly some "illegal" activities which you are precluded from doing. (For example, you can place dogs but you can not place intact dogs.) You can be sued individually for any actions in violation of or beyond the scope of the powers spelled out in your Charter. These are called ultra vires acts and permit what is termed "piercing the corporate veil" to get at your personal assets to satisfy a judgment.

Sooo, if your activities have shifted over time, check and see if you are now doing things you hadn't anticipated when you first incorporated and amend your Charter accordingly.

Also, be sure to follow the Ps & Qs of your by-laws. If you are to have quarterly meetings, or whatever, be sure to have them and preserve a Minute record in case you ever need to prove you've been operating like the real corporation you are. If you receive donations, don't co-mingle them with your personal funds. Keep a separate account. Just treat your corporation like the separate entity that it is.

Also, if there is an annual "renewal" fee in your State, make sure you remember to pay it on time. Its usually nominal but if your incorporation lapses you can be individually sued and you cannot bring suit against someone on behalf of your organization. This is easy to forget.

And check and see that your papers are recorded locally with your county registrar or county clerk or whoever is appropriate in your State. This puts the public on notice. If an organization was started by someone else and has been passed down over time, it is very easy to not know what your true status is and you need to find out.

Now I'll throw out something that I don't know the answer to. If your Charter says you can do something which later becomes contary to public policy or a violation of a specific statute, it can be an ultra vires act in spite of the fact that it is authorized by your Charter. If you deal with the so-called "dangerous" breeds or are located in an area where there is a breed specific ban, it would be a good idea to get some local legal advice. Also, there is a type of insurance called an umbrella policy to provide liability coverage for the officers and directors of a non-profit. In my non-dog experience, it is very inexpensive. If you are dealing with big or dangerous breeds, it could be something you might want to check out.

Incorporated or not, you can never go wrong by documenting full disclosure. Do up a little form with at least three sections. One to write in what you know about the particular dog (killed a goat, ex.), then general warning info about the breed as a whole (this could be pre-printed on your form if you're breed-specific), and third what specific precautions the adopter has agreed to take as a condition of the adoption (Obedience class, higher fence, etc) Then an acknowledgment that the adopter has read and understands it, and has been provided a copy, and a signature place for rescue and adopter. Keep your copy on file. This simple little piece of paper could save your butt (our house or bank account or first born child !!!).

I don't think there's any need to be just paralyzed by the fear of being sued, but a few simple precautions can't hurt. The best deterrent is to deal honestly with people, provide full disclosure, and keep copies of everything !

Shannon McClure
Res Ipsa IGs
Memphis
iggys@bellsouth.net

Subject: Re: CLASS: Message to Class
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:41:05 -0400
From: Tallanwood - malamute@MAIL.BANCOM.NET

We are incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation in Canada, and are in the process of applying for charitable status... Unfortunately, the laws/rules here are different from in the the USA....

Molly